tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730513615909994019.post2156377140345698650..comments2024-03-25T07:54:22.672+00:00Comments on Pop Classics: Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar (dir. Joseph L. Mankiewicz, 1953)Juliettehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00203399623895589924noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730513615909994019.post-32508424726589555932010-11-11T09:27:32.089+00:002010-11-11T09:27:32.089+00:00Yes, it's interesting that he leaves Cleopatra...Yes, it's interesting that he leaves Cleopatra out entirely, especially since Antony and Cleopatra works as a sort of sequel to this - but I think that's part of Shakespeare's extreme focus, probably done for the same reason as his compression of events into a few days, to produce a tighter piece of drama - and having a go at Queens might not have been too popular! :)Juliettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00203399623895589924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730513615909994019.post-39830792009852035522010-11-11T01:28:46.889+00:002010-11-11T01:28:46.889+00:00Never saw the film but I've always loved Brand...Never saw the film but I've always loved Brando. I re-read Shakespear's Caesar a couple of years ago and what struck me was just how much of the larger picture--especially as it related to Cleopatra--was ignored in the play.<br /><br />For example, Caesar seriously outraged conservative Romans by bringing Cleopatra to Italy and installing her in his villa outside the Tiber. Plus, he had petitioned the Senate to have the law changed so that a marriage with a non-Roman woman would be considered legal and that any heirs from that marriage would also be considered legal. <br /><br />He was murdered soon afterward, while Cleopatra and his son waited for him in his villa. A fascinating detail.<br /><br />But, you wouldn't have known any of this by just reading Shakespeare. Which is really too bad because the larger situation and it's implications was way more intriguing.Vicky Alvear Shecterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17570828339389206203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730513615909994019.post-63900786399586095452010-11-09T22:04:56.361+00:002010-11-09T22:04:56.361+00:00Well, fluency in Greek was the mark of a cultured ...Well, fluency in Greek was the mark of a cultured person and it was not unheard of for upper class Romans to converse in the language, even though those in the conversation were both native-speakers of Latin. It is entirely possible that Caesar thought in both languages. He wrote in Latin specifically because his works were intended to be read by and to Romans who may not necessarily have had much or any Greek. <br /><br />As I noted before, he didn't say "Iacta alea est," but rather the Greek equivalent, as it was a quote from Menander. So he at least demonstrates a tendency to resort to Greek at certain moments. Of course, that may argue that he was quoting again. Suetonius and Dio (and/or their sources) may have misunderstood his intent, so their Latin rendering is not necessarily definitive either.DemetriosXnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730513615909994019.post-35457593357038799232010-11-09T15:28:07.153+00:002010-11-09T15:28:07.153+00:00Yep - my lack of Streetcar viewing is causing gene...Yep - my lack of Streetcar viewing is causing general consternation! Will have to go see it, though I confess, I've never made much effort in that direction because stories about rapists generally don't appeal much to me - hence my dislike of Dodgey Soldier in Rome.Juliettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00203399623895589924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730513615909994019.post-25171876330012776802010-11-09T15:27:05.890+00:002010-11-09T15:27:05.890+00:00I didn't mean I didn't think Caesar spoke ...I didn't mean I didn't think Caesar spoke Greek, just that it's odd his last words would have been in Greek. Some Greco-Romans spoke Greek as a first language, but in the Late Republic it most certainly was not like Russian and Polish nobility, as Greek was not their first language or their everyday language, but a literary language learned as a second language. Caesar wrote in Latin and only in Latin, so it's pretty safe to say his first language was Latin, which is why I expressed suprise that, when dying, he would come out with Greek.<br /><br />Mary Beard may well be right - the Latin is inconclusive, so no one knows (though magical curses usually require a tablet and/or a bit more ritual than that, which obviously wouldn't have been possible). It seems to me more likely, in the context the phrase appears in Suetonius and Dio Cassius, that they are going for the more horrified, and-you-as-well meaning implied by Shakespeare, but Prof Beard's argument is equally valid.Juliettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00203399623895589924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730513615909994019.post-5123802479619377512010-11-09T15:24:37.489+00:002010-11-09T15:24:37.489+00:00Great write up Juliette. I haven't seen this v...Great write up Juliette. I haven't seen this version for a long time but must track it down again.<br /><br />And did I read correctly in that you've never seen Streetcar ?? It is easily Brando's defining moment, a must see. <br /><br />HAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02091875643921165081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730513615909994019.post-82023953092265923022010-11-09T15:08:55.262+00:002010-11-09T15:08:55.262+00:00Shakespeare was really bad at conveying long perio...Shakespeare was really bad at conveying long periods of time. <i>Macbeth</i> covers 11 years and feels like 11 days.<br /><br />It isn't at all unreasonable that Caesar's last words would have been Greek. Upper-class Romans spoke Greek, sometimes more often and better than they spoke Latin. It's rather like the way 18th century Polish and Russian nobility spoke French rather than their native tongues. If he was quoting, then it was likely Menander, who was his favorite. (His famous quote upon choosing to cross the Rubicon was from Menander.)<br /><br />As for Antony displaying the bloody corpse, there is a certain basis for the rumor. It wasn't Caesar's corpse, but a painted wax figure. I think it was probably related to the <i>imagines maiorum</i> which were connected to roman funerary rites. This particular effigy included the wounds and, according to Appian, Antony described each of them to the audience. It was Caesar's funeral and Antony was the primary speaker, since he was a close male relative.<br /><br />Checking some sources, I see that Mary Beard suggests that what Caesar was saying was, "They'll get you too, kid." There is also a suggestion that he was cursing Brutus (in the magical sense, not swearing at him) and his use of <i>teknon</i> was insulting or derogatory.DemetriosXnoreply@blogger.com